Linux.com

First Mozilla, now this. While it is only walmart.com, it's still a step forward.

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This will be an interesting opportunity to finally see if Michael Robertson was serious or if he (as most believe, myself included) is just blowing smoke.

I wonder why Walmart chose this distro, which has no wide-spread use, instead of a distro like Red Hat, Mandrake, or SuSE, which do have widespread use.

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After that fiasco at mp3.com over illegal copies of CD's (I *never* approved of that so-called "beam-it" or "my-cd" concept, when he has such a good community going for him--couldn't he have just waited awhile for it to grow into something really cool?) I would not spend a penny on his ventures.

I wonder: where will people play who are interested in free music now, because of that mess? Vivendi seems to be pushing the mp3.com community and supporters into buying "regular" commercial so-called-music....

Similarly, what will happen to Linux because of such a goof-off? If this "people's Linux" or "comsumer Linux" flops, how long is it going to take for us to scrape off the egg?

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That wasn't entirely Michael Robertson's fault. The company's lawyers told the company that the Beam-It plan would pass legal muster under Fair-Use...

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...sort of "foot in the door???" "Squeak by the guards?"

Laws also have a "spirit" as well as a "letter." Not that I believe the publishing firms haven't violated the "spirit" of the Constitution by extending copyright to such a ridiculous term.

My big issue with him was that he managed to get those goons on his ass at a time when there was a new musical culture *growing* on his service. Instead of taking the hard way, and encouraging that culture to become significant and maybe even profitable, he had to find a way to "squeeze in" material that didn't really belong to him, by making it look like it belonged to the users.

So he basically wound up putting all those free-thinking artists "on the block" for Universal to snag. Did he think about those people when he was fiddling with his lawyers?

I won't be done with my grudge until I am assured that free-spirited musical communities can flourish on the Internet. That's what I *thought* he was trying to do, and if I'm right, then he let us down.

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I'm not sure if it fits your criteria of a "free-spirited musical community" but I always found http://www.peoplesound.com as the best free music page (its as in free beer mostly).

used to contribute to http://www.garageband.com don't know if they are still there or not, but they where good enough for me.

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I think the answer to that is kind of obvious. These are built for either the completely novice computer user or a Windows hardened novice computer user. These are not professional machines or even inexpensive "geek" machines, but simply cheap computers for entry level users.

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It can be an internet dedicated machine; separaterd from a small internal network: pretty virus proof and where i can do some secretary work ( open office ). Small box, no license; more security.

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...pretty virus proof ... more security.

The big problem here is that by default, Lindows users run as root!!! It's simpler for people who only know MSFT...

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The reason they went with Lindows over another Linux distro is because Lindows comes pre-compiled with the stuff that makes it MS-Windows compatible, and the GUI *looks* just like Windows. RedHat, Mandrake, etc. don't ship with that sort of look & feel, and you have to manually add-in WINE, CrossOver Office or whatever.

Wal-Mart here is targeting a new and growing market segment -- 2nd-PC homes. The first PC and replacment PC market is pretty much filled at this point, people are comfortable enough with computers that they see a need to get a 2nd one, but they don't necessiarly want to shell out another $1000-$2000 to duplicate what they already have. They just want something for the kids to play on/e-mail/websurf, but they don't want any ol piece of junk that is slower or could cause problems. Wal-Mart is pretty much the only vendor who could deliver these systems in a large enough quantity and at a price that will pretty much sell instantly. They'll have this market EASILY cornered.

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I suspect it was a pricing issue (as it is with most Walmart vendors); they could have gone with Lycoris/LX as well, it's targeting the same userbase as Lindows and also uses a KDE-based desktop.

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"....I wonder why Walmart chose this distro, which has no wide-spread use, instead of a distro like Red Hat, Mandrake, or SuSE, which do have widespread use."

What we consider "widespread use" of Linux probably doesn't even show up on Walmart's radar. Remember they are probably introducing Linux to the people they are selling these PCs to. The existing desktop Linux userbase is so small that Walmart probably would not bother going after it. So they can pick any distro that meets their customers needs i.e Windows like and capable of email, websurfing and basic wordprocessing.

emk

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... who ? Widespread use ?? Of the Linux desktop ??? What use? The sum-total of Linux desktop use is 0.025% of all computer users ... and most of that is looky-loo ... that's loo not Lou, and till ya get lots a' Lous ya don't have a market - and bless their dark-little-souls Walmart knows about MARKETS.

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i am sure theirs more linux users than 0.025%.
I was a dedicated windows fan untill 3 years ago.
I first installed suse 6.2 it lasted 2 weeks then windows was put back on mainly cos of hardware probs and games. But when windows was back on i could feel the slowness of windows and lack of control, so time and again i kept installing-uninstalling linux this was mainly cos their wasnt a distro that supported all my hardware. In the end i gave up windows for suse 7.2. The point is once a windows user uses linux theyll bitch and moan about it and re-install windows, but once thy've tried it they'll keep comming back for more untill they understand whats going on in the unix enviroment.

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.025%?
Lessee here.... The entire German government just went linux, the US defense department just went linux, linux is the dominant OS in asia....

I think your numbers are a bit low. Oh hell, more than a bit, you're WAY off base!

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> linux is the dominant OS in asia....

What Asia is that? I live in Japan and the push is Windows 100%.

I'll be in China next week. I'm curious to see i I run across this Red Flag Linux I've heard talk of.

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At $299 for a well spec'ed machine, this is going to sell bucketloads. Who wants MS Office on a home PC anyway when StarOffice/OpenOffice will do exactly the same for one twentieth of the price? Games? - well there is the Direct X extension to WINE.

Once these machines start selling, the dam has burst, porting Windows applications and games to WINE is easy - if codeweavers can do this for MS Office binaries with nothing but hinderence from Microsoft, think how easy this will be for the app/games writers who have the source code and the incentive.

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I believe a major factor was likely the desire to avoid the update agony of RPM based updating. See the article Is RPM Doomed?
http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-06 -17-005-26-OP-SW

and then compare that with the ease of the Lindows Click-N-Run:
http://www.lindows.com/products_clicknrun_whatis.p hp

The mass market is not a geek market. If you were trying to sell to a large, new market of Linux newbies, which route would you choose?

(Eazel was also headed in the direction of easing support and maintenance over the net. If they had survived, they might also have been a contender.)

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well....I am not sure...but Linux currently comprises a LOT more than the idiotic %0.025% of desktops that some folks think.

  Yipes...wake up and smell the roses folks...Linux is more useful, 1000 times more powerful and incredibly easy to install.

  I sell Linux distributions on the web and have sold more than 1000 of them on my teeny, tiny website in the last year.

  Truth be know...most "geeks" are windows users like me who dual boot...:-)

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.. this is important, not because of Lindows, but because these machines are guaranteed to work with Lindows. Meaning, that for $299 you can now get a pre-built machine that you _know_ will work fully with your distro of choice, be it Lindows, Mandrake, SuSE, etc..

Throw openoffice on these things, and for under $3k, you can have 10 full-fledged office computers running.

Simply amazing. I hope schools take notice.

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This is incredible! When my grandma's HP dies, I'm making SURE she gets one of these. This is absolutely insane. Pigs are flying:

Mozilla

Neverwinter Nights

Now this....

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Yes. Help spreding Linux viruses, give your grandma root.

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I gave your mom my root last night

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Don't believe the 7 days thing... it's false advertising.

I cancelled an order from them after 3 weeks passed with no shipment. They ignored 2 emails (I guess they only have the email address for show). Finally I called and they told me the factory was backordered.

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Finally I called and they told me the factory was backordered

They probably are. Woohoo! Go Linux! :-)

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Well really, what can you expect. Companies do get back ordered. I would figure 1 to 7 days would only hold true when the computers are in stock. Which when you think of it, is actually a pretty slow guarantee (heck, I get annoyed at waiting 2 days for a company to just ship a package). This is a good deal, and the first of its kind (that I know of) in such a mass quantity with an extremely popular national retailer.. I wouldn't be surprised if the computers were on back order in most areas for quite some time.

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This is a great step forward...too bad it happens to be WalMart, whom I wouldn't give one dollar of my hard-earned money to EVER.

Forget the well-known music/book censorship--that's just kid's stuff. Think about the fact they refuse to stock emergency contraceptives for women (as well as misopristol, the so-called 'abortion drug') in their in-store pharmacies. In many places, WalMart is the only place for low-income women to get such products.

Think about their viciously anti-competitive business practices (think MS is bad?). Their goal is not to fairly compete with local retailers--it is to obliterate them (*all* of them) by any means necessary.

Think about their virus-like invasion of small-town communities, buying off the local politicians and landowners--then leveling everything for their vast parking lots and shopping centers. The prototypical American homogenization.

Yes, Linux is good. WalMart is worse.

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I couldn't have said it better. Wal*Mart is a parasite preying on local businesses. I do hope this venture is successful though, because if these machines make a strong enough dent in the ethos of the general populace, Lindows and Linux will also start to be understood. This in turn will eventually come back around to the Wal*Marts of the world and wreak havoc on their centralization of power. The people *will* bite the hand that feeds them.

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why are you so bitter

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why are you so brief?

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Hey, cool your jets comrad. Your PMS will soon be over for another month.

FYI, WalMart is vicously COMPETITIVE. That's why they offer a wide variety of good quality, low cost goods. Something MSoft doesn't now offer and, on the other end, something really hard for Mom and Pop stores to offer. It's the free market. Adapt or die. WalMart has lots of competitors. How about Target and ShopKo and many others?

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FYI, WalMart is vicously COMPETITIVE. That's why they offer a wide variety of good quality, low cost goods.

Speaking as a former Wal-Mart customer, I can vouch for the low cost part; but calling their offerings "good quality" is the most whimsical of fantasy. I've also seen first hand what these guys do to small towns, and it ain't pretty. First they close down all the small ma and pa shops, then they leave. Aside from the fact that they leave a bunch of people broke, it also means you have to drive thirty minutes just to get milk and bread. Not cool.

These days, I purchase all my goods from locally owned businesses and (because I'm in the computer business) certain web sites. This ensures that those businesses and sites will be there in the future, and that I might have work if things get bad again. That's how enlightened self-interest works.

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Your PMS will soon be over for another month.

So you're throwing misogyny into the mix too, huh? I feel sorry for your hate and ignorance.

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whoa... chill out. talk about hate and ignorance... I bet you're angry a lot :)

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Awww, poor you, did walmart not allow you to kill your baby?

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Most of the time the malice of people posting online does not surprise me. However, your post has the unique honor of being one of the most malicious I ever read. It makes me wonder what your Lord and Loved Ones must think.

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I wonder what the lord thinks of child killers.

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I know this is news to you, but not everyone agrees on just what *is* a child. A fertilized egg is not a child by most people's definition. You have to live in a world where your opinion is in the minority, so deal with it. Your rights are protected, but you have no business to mess with other people's rights.

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Mess with people's right to kill? How do you define life? Wow, it's ok to kill babies but not copy CD's! What kind of fscked up world is this? I'm sorry I hate to be the bearer of bad news but a woman may have the legal right to kill her unborn child but that does not make it "right".

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I wonder what the lord thinks of the zillions unhealthy, spineless, religious, mass consuming Americans who go apeshit over wal-mart. If there is a lord, The Lord is a child killer. The Lord also let my pet rabbits starve to death when I was ten. To the defenders of Wal-Mart, you reek of cheap useless crap. Hail craftsmanship, Hail LINUX, Hail Satan.

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Why does everyone assume that people who are pro-life are dumb, ignorant religious people?

My sister is pro-life, she is neither dumb, or religious; she just thinks the logic behind the whole pro-choice ideology is wacko.

Just because you only see people who are a little loopy on TV who are pro-life doesn't mean that everyone is that way. Or are we not capable of seeing humans on the other side of the debate?

Now, I AM a Baptist Pastor; and pro-life, and I humbly ask the people dropping the "baby killer" posts with "Lord" attached to them to stop. I won't tell you to hate what is evil, most people think they understand that. I will tell you to love what is good. And trolling on message boards is not good.

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Given that the original poster was talking about a morning after pill, the use of the term "baby" is highly subjective. I wouldn't expect you to understand that as you are clearly incapable of independent thought.

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"Given that the original poster was talking about a morning after pill, the use of the term "baby" is highly subjective. I wouldn't expect you to understand that as you are clearly incapable of independent thought."

Perhaps if your mother had thought that way the world would be a better place today. The next time you consider killing a baby take a look at the children around you, if you still have a clear conscience perhaps you should abort yourself instead.

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So every time a woman has a period and every time a man masturbates, they're each "killing" potential children?

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If you were just talking about the ``abortion pill'', then that would be one thing. I don't have anything to add to the debate about whether or not abortion is a bad thing.



However, emergency contraception is an entirely different matter. Emergency contraception DOES NOT impair implantation! The ONLY thing it does is prevent ovulation, exactly like the normal birth control pill. It just stops UNfertilized eggs from coming in contact with sperm.



Did you all hear me? I'll say it again: it prevents eggs from becoming fertilized. That's it.



If you've already ovulated, and your egg HAS become fertilized, EC will have aboslutely no effect on it whatsoever. NONE. The egg will implant in the uterus (assuming there are no unrelated problems) and you will have a normal pregnancy.



Emergency contraception is INCAPABLE of harming a fertilized egg!

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Thats Exactly why i shop at walmart. Way to go Wally Linux and No Killing babies what a cool combo.

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Hey, guess what? By refusing to carry emergency contraception, they might just BE killing babies!



After all, emergency contraception IS NOT an abortion! All it does is prevent ovulation, the exact same way regular birth control drugs work. It only affects UNfertilized eggs.



I'll make this extra clear for you! If a woman who already HAS ovulated and her egg has become fertilized, emergency contraception is INCAPABLE of harming the fertilized egg!



So if someone is denied emergency contraception and they become pregnant, they might decide to have an actual abortion. Since you're against abortion, one would think you would love emergency contraception! Maybe you should learn a little more about these things.



After all, ignorance kills.

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Not to mention the Walton family's contributions to the KKK and other white supremacist groups, totalling many millions of dollaars over the years.

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Kind of _ i r o n i c _ considering their customer base is comprised mainly of low-wage minorities who are the target of KKK and racist aggression.

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Forget the well-known music/book censorship--that's just kid's stuff. Think about the fact they refuse to stock emergency contraceptives for women (as well as misopristol, the so-called 'abortion drug') in their in-store pharmacies. In many places, WalMart is the only place for low-income women to get such products.

First, it's not censorship. The government isn't prohibiting them from carrying any books or music. They have every right to decide what they want to sell or not. On the so-called emergency contraception, why don't people use contraception before they get pregnant?

Think about their viciously anti-competitive business practices (think MS is bad?). Their goal is not to fairly compete with local retailers--it is to obliterate them (*all* of them) by any means necessary.

Think about their virus-like invasion of small-town communities, buying off the local politicians and landowners--then leveling everything for their vast parking lots and shopping centers.

On these points I somewhat agree with you. If they didn't bully there way into many towns, convincing local governments to use eminent domain and such legal but unethical (IMNSHO) methods, I wouldn't have a problem. It's too bad mom and pop couldn't compete with Wal-Mart and had to close down their shop, but there's no right to stay in business.They'll just have to find another way to compete, i.e. better service, find a niche, etc.

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"On the so-called emergency contraception, why don't people use contraception before they get pregnant?"

They are needed in case when latex breaks.

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First, it's not censorship. The government isn't prohibiting them from carrying any books or music. They have every right to decide what they want to sell or not.

I agree that they have a right to sell what they do or do not want, but let's not kid ourselves: by deciding not to carry product because of message (instead of market demand), they are engaging in censorship. Just because it's not government-mandated doesn't make it any less so.

On the so-called emergency contraception, why don't people use contraception before they get pregnant?

People get pregnant even with the best contraception (e.g., tubal ligation). This is an ultimate backup. You might not like it, but the arguments for access to emergency contraception are exactly like the arguments for concealed carry. It's an ultimate last resort. Denying either makes an assumption that the person denied can't take responsibility for himself or herself.

I'm not saying that Wal-Mart should be forced to carry these drugs; they are, after all, a private enterprise. On the other hand, if they're not willing to provide these drugs, then someone else (such as a competitor, or Planned Parenthood) has to step in.

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by deciding not to carry product because of message (instead of market demand), they are engaging in censorship.

It's not censorship, because anyone can go down the street to another record store, or go online and order what Wal-Mart doesn't sell.

I'm not saying that Wal-Mart should be forced to carry these drugs; they are, after all, a private enterprise. On the other hand, if they're not willing to provide these drugs, then someone else (such as a competitor, or Planned Parenthood) has to step in.

Nobody has to step in. Personally, I believe these so-called emergency contraceptives are on shaky ground. If the sperm has already fertilized the egg, it is a living human being, and should not be aborted unless the life of the mother is danger. If the conception hasn't taken place yet, and this merely prevents it from happening, that would be acceptable to me. However, how can one know whether or not it's happened? Therefore, I believe these pills should be banned.

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It's not censorship, because anyone can go down the street to another record store, or go online and order what Wal-Mart doesn't sell.

Let's assume that this is a good defense against a censorship charge (and I don't believe that it is): you're assuming that there's another store to go to, or that the customer has Internet access. This doesn't hold for a lot of towns where Wal-Mart dominates.

Personally, I believe these so-called emergency contraceptives are on shaky ground.

I'm not going to get into the abortion debate, except to say that I vigorously disagree with your entire line of reasoning.

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I'm no lawyer but where is that law that demands that private enterprises must sell all books if they sell any books at all. Freedom implies the ability to choose. Judging from your comments on the abortion pill I would think you would agree with this. Calling this kind of discretion over your own product line censorship is highly inflamitory and insulting rhetoric at best. If you are trying to buy muslim literature a Christian book store is probably not your best bet and vice-versa. This is not odd un-American or evil this is living in a free and open society where you can choose to start a busines and sell whatever the market will buy for whatever they are willing to pay for it. (for the record - I don't like the heavy handed stuff that Wal-Mart does either but censorship is the point I take issue with)
As for life the only thing added to a baby after conception is time+safety+food. Legal right and moral right have absolutely nothing to do with each other on this planet anyone with a TV should have gathered that by now. O.J. was legally acquited but if that was justice I will eat my keyboard.

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The ultimate last resort is to not do it at all. Anyone that believes otherwise is an irresponsible fool. Anyone that aborts an egg after fertilization is a child killer.

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Repeat after me, 1,2,4,16,64 cells do not make a human. No brain, no body, no nothing. It is as much a human as much as a hair or a dozen of spermatozoids.

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I feel sorry for your parents.

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The only problem with your thinking process is -Only the One Who Makes a Product can say when the product began, or is finished. That's called Authorship.

I am a writer. My novels begin when I have an idea. The novel is finished when the story is completed. I am also a computer programmer. Have you studied the intricacies of DNA? What marvelous programming. I can wait to meet the Programmer. Do you know the mysteries of life? Life is beautiful, because life is...

Walmart's decision is benefitting the open source community. Lindows may not be Red Hat, but it is a good start. Although a very enjoyable debate, the rest of this has no Logical Connection to the subject. -Katriel Bat-Emet

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Then at what point does it become a human being? 128 cells? 256? 2^10? 2^20? Some arbitrary time period like the first trimester?

The only definitive, discrete point in its development is conception. Before, the sperm and egg cells are distinctly of the parents, and cannot develop into a baby. After, it's a matter of time and nourishment until it's born, unless an abortion or miscarriage end the pregnancy prematurely.

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Consider that in the first few months of pregnancy there isn't much difference between a fetus and most animals in their birth stage. Calling the fetus an unborn child, however it is (the fetus has a potential to be born and become a child) it is like calling a person an undead corpse. People have just as much potential to become corpses as fetuses have to become children.

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Actually, people have a significantly greater chance of becoming corpses than a fetus does of becoming a human.

Largely because anything alive has a 100% chance of dying at some point in the future, and fetuses have no guarantee of ever developing at all.

Abortion did not invent miscarriage or birth defect: "God" did. Go talk to "him". :)

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Consider that in the first few months of pregnancy there isn't much difference between a fetus and most animals in their birth stage.

That is not true! It's a fraud that was propagated by Ernst Haeckel in 1874. His work has been almost completely discredited by modern evolutionary biologists. See <A HREF="http://zygote.swarthmore.edu/evo5.html">this page</a swarthmore.edu> for more info. It's outrageous that this is still in many elementary and high school science textbooks.

People have just as much potential to become corpses as fetuses have to become children.

Your argument makes no logical sense. People have a 100% chance of becoming corpses. So using your logic: fetuses have a 100% of being born?

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> It's too bad mom and pop couldn't compete with Wal-Mart and had to close down their shop, but there's no right to stay in business.

No local business, of any kind, can ever compete with a large national chain that does loss-leader pricing at new locations, financed by the rest of the chain, for as many months/years as it takes to completely kill all locally competing businesses.

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No local business, of any kind, can ever compete with a large national chain that does loss-leader pricing at new locations, financed by the rest of the chain, for as many months/years as it takes to completely kill all locally competing businesses.

They can't compete on price, but there are other ways to compete:

Better, more personalized service

Specialized expertise

Niche markets

Handcrafted, local wares

etc.

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That's correct. In fact, mom and pop can now go to walmart and buy the computer for thier business for ~$450 (w/monitor & printer).

This important. I don't like walmart (or any big chain) for what they do to homoginize local communities. Strength is in diversity. But the only way for the little guy to compete with the big guy is to leverage networks and computers.

We now have what has been a private resource of big business: computers and global networks. It's time to start using them so mom and pop can combine their strengths and do the leveraged buys/sells that these large companies have been able to do for about 15-20 years. This is why they are ahead of us.

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That's the most incoherent, BS filled post I/ve seen in a long time.

Strength is in diversity.

This is utterly untrue, but repeated often. It's not true in reference to business, economics, populations, or anywhere.

But the only way for the little guy to compete with the big guy is to leverage networks and computers.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, trying to be funny, or just plain stupid. Leveraging computer technology is how Wal-Mart became the behemoth it is today. They run a very lean, efficient business, especially in regards to their supply chain. Their competitors (K-Mart, etc.) couldn't match them, but many are now using the same techniques to try to catch up.

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Last I checked, this was called C-a-p-i-t-a-l-i-s-m. The "large national chain" known as Wal-mart didn't just appear one day with all it's stores in place. Never know, one of those "mom and pop" stores could one day grow into a large national chain and become your next arch-enemy.

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On the so-called emergency contraception, why don't people use contraception before they get pregnant?

Hey, I've got an idea. How about people know what they're talking about before they say things like this?



You have to use emergency contraception before you get pregnant, or else it doesn't work! EC works by preventing ovulation. It has absolutely no effect on implantation, and is INCAPABLE of affecting a fertilized egg!



This is why it's called the ``morning after pill'' instead of the month after pill. It's intended to be used within 72 hours of intercourse, to prevent an UNFERTILIZED egg from being released. For instance, if you are responsibly using condoms as contraception and the condom happens to break.



At that point, the responsible contraceptive user goes out and responsibly uses emergency contraception to make up for the accident, and PREVENT (not abort!) a very irresponsible accidental pregnancy.

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You know what? I am glad they don't stock Emergency Contraceptives. If you get yourself in a position where you need one, you are not being responsible.

O.k., o.k. what about a rape? Well guess what -- go to the Doctor... You should anyway after a rape.

And the abortion drug should be banned.

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Absolutely, Women who murder children should be charged as the murderers they are.

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So the baby is the one to blame fot the rape... KILL IT SOON!!!

Please, please, please, think what you say

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Some pretty sick people out there huh? Lets take your irresponsibility out on your unborn child. Wait, it's not a baby yet.. *PROVE IT*

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You're not being responsible by using emergency contraceptives? That is by far the most moronic statement I have EVER heard!



Emergency contraceptives are meant to be used if you ARE using another type of contraceptive, such as a condom, and there is an accident, such as the condom breaking. If you were doing everything properly and RESPONSIBLY, there is still a chance of such a thing happening.



At which point, being that you are such a responsible person, you do the responsible thing -- use an emergency contraceptive. You thereby prevent ovulation, the same way regular birth control works. A pregnancy is PREVENTED. Very responsible!



And being that you're against abortion, wouldn't you say preventing abortions is a good thing? Then WHY ON EARTH are you against emergency contraceptives?

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Take people who are bigots, allow them them cheat others to get rich, and the cycle repeats itself...perhaps this could be called the "bigotry cycle." NOT NICE!

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Umm, they can sell whatever the hell they please. If you want to sell that stuff, you sell it. Jeez, start your own damn company instead of complaining and FORCING others to do your bidding (yes, you are the kind that goes out and 'votes'... grow up please).

Oh, get a job too. Instead of sitting in that little college room talking about how bad wealth creation is, dammit. And no, Walmart does not go around forcing you to buy their products/services. If you don't want them go buy from somewhere else or start your own damn company.

What planet are you from again?

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Has anyone who thinks Wal*Mart is an evil company every actually worked at one? I did for 5 years during High School and Collage and here are my thoughts?

You can tell a lot about a company by how they treat their employees and Wal*Mart does a better job than their compitetion and that is why they are the best in the business. Most fulltime employees mad ~$18,000 + Benifits + Bonuses back in 1991. Now this is not a ton of money, but if you have little job experience or live in a small towns it is.

They mandate that any "local" supplier that has a product similar to one that is already carried must be stocked. I know several small town manufaturing plants that own their business to WAL*MART.

They are a very competive company and I would not want to try to compete with them becuase they are super effecient and well run, but that does not make them evil.

I also disagree with their policy on tapes and books and several other alterations they make, however, they do this despite the fact that it probably hurts their sales. That is called having a belief and sticking to it. Even if I disagree with them, they still have a lot of integerity for sticking.

For every small town they become they "kill", they help 10 other towns grow. Ask any economist what is the best indicator of a robust econmy and he will tell you that the quality of living is the best indicator of how well a country is doing. The funny thing about this QOL is that is is almost entirely influenced by one factor, effiency of the economy. Effiency gains are driven by compitition in a free market and therefore free markets are the strongest in the world. I would put forth that Walmart is the most efficient company on the planet and is probably more responsible for the groth in the 90s than any other single company.

Now when Walmart starts using the fact that they are the dominate player to raise prices....then we will talk evil, but until then, WAL*MART is renown for razer-thin margins.

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Yes, you *can* tell a lot about a company by how they treat their employees.

WalMart has among the worst labor policies in America: Low wages, little benefits, pervasive illegal union-busting, etc.

WalMart does everything it can to *avoid* hiring full time employees (er, I mean, 'associates'). Why? Because it is cheaper to run a business with a part-time workforce: no benefits, no vacation time, no raises. There's also little threat of workers organizing for their collective benefit: turnover is high, morale is bad, job security is so low that there seems to be little point in organizing (you won't be there very long, anyway). And, as an added benefit, they can greatly inflate the number of jobs they claim to have created when it comes time to negotiate the next round of corporate welfare (er, I mean, "tax breaks") with the local cronies in town hall.

And they treat their 'associates' wonderfully, too. It is strictly _forbidden_ to talk to coworkers on company time at all, unless it is about the task immediately at hand. They call it (somewhat Orwellianly) "time theft". You can (and will be) fired on the spot for it if you are caught.

The most sickening thing of all is their super-saccharine marketing campaigns attempting to convince people (apparently successfully) that it's oh-so-much-fun to work there ("If I didn't work here, I'd be here anyway!" says the sweet old man in the blue vest).

WalMart is the face of the new American sweatshop. Unless you are one of the priviledged with a quality education (which requires, of course, money), this is the future you can look forward to.

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Sweatshops? Umm...no. That's a pretty ridiculous comparison. You have fat, happy workers with benefits who could run out and find a job elsewhere without the faintest possibility of starving.

Suppose we forced WalMart to pay all their workers double wages and let them goof off on company time. Gee golly, I do believe prices would go up. *Your* prices. *You'd* be the one subsidizing the comfortable lifestyle of the college dropouts and the people without a work ethic.

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Too bad your "Collage" didn't teach spelling.

Let me help:

competition
razor
renowned (grammer, not spelling)
efficiency (would have blown this one off as a typo, but you did it three times)
integrity (integerity - the characteristic of being like a positive or negative whole number?)
manufacturing
benefits
Yes, and finally: college!

Otherwise, great points. I think the only valid point that the original poster has is that Wal*Mart is like a bad house guest. They come uninvited, ignore you or bully you when you try to turn them away at the door, then settle in for a long stay. Sometimes, they do end up being a positive thing for small towns, but sometimes they don't. The point, though, is that Wal*Mart doesn't leave when communities try to turn them away, so their community inevitably becomes dependent on Wal*Mart. If Wal*Mart fails or pulls out of town, the small networks of businesses and product distribution in the area no longer exist. Not to mention the fact that now quite a few of their citizens are newly unemployed and still just as unskilled and useless to a small community as ever. So, is Wal*Mart evil? Maybe not. But are they rude, self-serving and possibly destructive? Yes.

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What's "grammer"? Thanks.

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I think he was referring to Kelsey Grammer, of Cheers and Frasier fame.

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... cause 13% of the folks in that high QOL township are living Walmart fat ... and the other 87% are without living-wage jobs. THAT's an economists idea of paradise --- 87% of people do not agree and will eventually tear-down that fat-living Walmartized paradise.

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This is a great step forward...

I agree!

...too bad it happens to be WalMart, whom I wouldn't give one dollar of my hard-earned money to EVER

I'm sorry -- that dollar would go further than it might other places.

Forget the well-known music/book censorship...

Um...no. For something to be censorship, you have to actually suppress the thing, not just refuse to sell it. For example, I refuse to spread Scientology dogma, but that doesn't mean I'm censoring Scientology.

Think about the fact that they refuse to stock emergency contraceptives for women

Yes. So? Apple once ripped out an easter egg from the MacOS where the smiling startup face would wink at you, because it was offensive in some cultures. It doesn't mean that they care one way or the other about producing social change. They just found that too many people were upset by this sort of thing, and as any good company should, they served their customers' desires as best they could. WalMart isn't the KKK or the Lutheran church or anything of the sort. They don't care one way or the other.

In many places, WalMart is the only place for low-income women to get such products

Oh, come *on*. That's ludicrous. WalMart is not cutting off any source of any drug, period. This is the 21st century United States -- if you want to get a drug and can't get it at point A, you *can* get it at point B.

Think about their viciously anti-competitive business practices

There's one crucial difference between the two wildly successful businesses. WalMart didn't get wealthy by selling crummy products at insane prices. Yes, they play tough, but the consumer doesn't get horribly screwed in the process.

Yes, Linux is good. WalMart is worse.

If they manage to pull this off, I'm going to be enjoying it. WalMart is immensely powerful and has a lot of consumer pull. They could run MS right over.

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And you can't get porn there either. Not even Bonus packs with 3 Four year old issues of Fox and Cheri for $7.99, let alone DVD porn. Where else is a small town stud to go to get porn when they are the only store around. Do they think that just because they own the store, they have a right to chose what they want to sell? How dare them.

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Wow, I didn't know WalMart was so picky about what they sell in their pharmacies.

Mmmm. In spite of my bad experience working at a new Walmart in 1989, maybe I should shop there more often, especially if they are going to sell Lindows.

I prefer Redhat, but maybe Linux might just become a household word from all this fuss. Sometimes bad publicity is

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Sometimes bad publicity makes better marketing.

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Yes and no its a two-way street. These are really ethical issues and are irrelevant in this context. Here at Clemson, there is still plenty of anti-WalMart paraphenalia lying around (and WalMart was stopped), but it is exactly those Wal-Mart business practices that you hate that made this possible. No small store, or even large retailer, would want to constantly offer a $300 box. I hate censorship and dislike "emergency contraceptives." I think you may need to look up the definition of contraceptive as the definition abortion does fit more closely then contraception to most of the drugs I've researched.. but like I said.. thats irrelevant to this discussian. It's a commercial economy, either play the game or don't.

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Thank you for adding that! I know about wal mart's practices as well and not enough others do.

Mike

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Anybody know where to find information about Microtel? Who are they? Where are they? Can they be taken seriously?

It is interesting to note that Lindows does not even mention this deal on their website. This uncharacteristic of them.

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A $299usd Computer from Walmart, and your asking if they can be taken seriously? Well of course, I mean I'd bet the farm on the quaility of components, assembly, and customer service. I also have a me