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An Open Letter to Darl McBride

By on August 22, 2003 (8:00:00 AM)

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- by Eric S. Raymond -
Mr. McBride: Late yesterday I learned that you have <SLASH HREF="//linux.com/relocate.pl?id=560d58f3ed19f1216f6c2b77674320c6" ID="21a5e5ba2fb197ce1a16edc9b79093b0" TITLE="http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2003/0825scoatta.html" TYPE="LINK">charged</SLASH> that your company is the victim of an insidious conspiracy masterminded by IBM. You have urged the press and public to believe that the Open Source Initiative and the Free Software Foundation and Red Hat and Novell and various Linux enthusiasts are up in arms not because of beliefs or interests of their own, but because little gray men from Armonk have put them up to it. Bwahahaha! Fire up the orbital mind-control lasers!

Very few things could possibly illustrate the brain-boggling disconnect between SCO and reality with more clarity than hearing you complain about how persecuted your company is. You opened this ball on 6 March by accusing the open-source community of criminality and incompetence as a way to set up a lawsuit against IBM. You have since tried to seize control of our volunteer work for your company's exclusive gain, and your lawyers have announced the intention to destroy not just the GPL but all the open-source licenses on which our community is built. It's beyond me how can have the gall to talk as though we need funding or marching orders from IBM to mobilize against you. IBM couldn't stop us from mobilizing!

I'm not sure which possibility is more pathetic — that the CEO of SCO is lying through his teeth for tactical reasons, or that you genuinely aren't capable of recognizing honest outrage when you see it. To a manipulator, all behaviors are manipulation. To a conspirator, all opposition is conspiracy. Is that you? Have you truly forgotten that people might make common cause out of integrity, ethical considerations, or simple self-defense? Has the reality you inhabit truly become so cramped and ugly?

I'm in at least semi-regular communication with most of the people and organizations who are causing you problems right now. The only conspiracy among us is the common interest in preventing the open-source community from being destroyed by SCO's greed and desperation. (And we think it's a perfect sign of that desperation that at SCOforum you ‘proved’ your relevance by bragging about the amount of press coverage SCO generates. Last I checked, companies demonstrated relevance by showing products, not press clippings.)

Yes, one of the parties I talk with is, in fact, IBM. And you know what? They're smarter than you. One of the many things they understand that you do not is that in the kind of confrontation SCO and IBM are having, independent but willing allies are far better value than lackeys and sock puppets. Allies, you see, have initiative and flexibility. The time it takes a lackey to check with HQ for orders is time an ally can spend thinking up ways to make your life complicated that HQ would be too nervous to use. Go on, try to imagine an IBM lawyer approving this letter.

The very best kind of ally is one who comes to one's side for powerful reasons of his or her own. For principle. For his or her friends and people. For the future. IBM has a lot of allies of that kind now. It's an alliance you drove together with your arrogance, your overreaching, your insults, and your threats.

And now you cap it all with this paranoid ranting. It's classic, truly classic. Was this what you wanted out of life, to end up imitating the doomed villain in a cheesy B movie? Tell me, does that dark helmet fit comfortably? Are all the minions cringing in proper form? "No, Mr. Torvalds, I expect you to die!" I'd ask if you'd found the right sort of isolated wasteland for your citadel of dread yet, but that would be a silly question; you're in Utah, after all.

It doesn't have to be this way. Sanity can still prevail. Here's the message that Jeff Gerhardt read at SCOforum again:

In recent months, the company formerly known as Caldera and now trading as SCO has alleged that the 2.4 Linux kernel contains code misappropriated from it. We in the open-source community are respectful of intellectual-property rights, and take pride in our ability to solve our own problems with our own code. If there is infringing code in the Linux kernel, our community wants no part of it and will remove it.

We challenge SCO to specify exactly which code it believes to be infringing, by file and line number, and on what grounds it is infringing. Only with disclosure can we begin the process of remedying any breach that may exist. If SCO is truly concerned about protecting its property, rather than simply using the mere accusations as a pretext to pump its stock price and collect payoffs from Microsoft for making trouble, then it will welcome the opportunity to have its concerns resolved as quickly and with as little disruption as possible. We are willing to cooperate with that.

The open-source community is not, however, willing to sit idly by while SCO asserts proprietary control, and the right to collect license fees, over the entirety of Linux. That is an unacceptable attempt to hijack the work thousands of volunteer programmers contributed in good faith, and must end.

If SCO is willing to take the honest, cooperative path forward, so are we. If it is not, let the record show that we tried before resorting to more confrontational means of defending our community against predation.

Linus Torvalds is backing me on this, and our other chieftains and philosopher-princes will as well. Show us the overlaps. If your code has been inserted in our work, we'll remove it — not because you've threatened us but because that's the right thing to do, whether the patches came from IBM or anywhere else. Then you can call off your lawyers and everyone will get to go home happy.

Take that offer while you still can, Mr. McBride. So far your so-called ‘evidence’ is [redacted]; you'd better climb down off your high horse before we shoot that sucker entirely out from under you. How you finish the contract fight you picked with IBM is your problem. As the president of OSI, defending the community of open-source hackers against predators and carpetbaggers is mine — and if you don't stop trying to destroy Linux and everything else we've worked for I guarantee you won't like what our alliance is cooking up next.

And in case it's not pellucidly clear by now, not one single solitary [redacted] thing I have said or published since 6 March (or at any time previously for that matter) has been at IBM's behest. I'm very much afraid it's all been me, acting to serve my people the best way I know how. IBM doesn't have what it would take to buy me away from that job and neither do you. I'm not saying I don't have a price — but it ain't counted in money, so I won't even bother being insulted by your suggestion.

You have a choice. Peel off that dark helmet and deal with us like a reasonable human being, or continue down a path that could be bad trouble for us but will be utter ruin — quite possibly including jail time on fraud, intellectual-property theft, barratry, and stock-manipulation charges — for you and the rest of SCO's top management. You have my email, you can have my phone if you want it, and you have my word of honor that you'll get a fair hearing for any truths you have to offer.

Eric S. Raymond
esr@thyrsus.com
President, Open Source Initiative
Friday, 22 August 2003

Editor's note: The opinions in this article are strictly Mr. Raymond's, not those held by NewsForge editors or OSDN management. However, it should be noted that NewsForge editors and writers are not being paid or coerced by IBM in any way to write (or not write) about SCO's recent actions.

2nd Editor's note: If, as Mr. McBride claims, the amount of attention SCO has gotten from the computer press is a rational measure of the company's relevance, then -- at for least this week -- the authors of the sobig.f virus are far more relevant than SCO.

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on An Open Letter to Darl McBride

Note: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.

Yes!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 01:53 AM
Yes! Well said.

(This comment was sponsored by IBM. All hail IBM.)

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Re:Yes!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 07:12 AM
darl has awakened a sleeping giant....

dave mallery

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Re:Yes!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 24, 2003 04:38 AM
Yesh Yesh, put them in jail plijjj! I am from Holland, ijn't that weirrd?

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Well Put Eric

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:07 AM
It is nice to see someone standing up against intimidation of the Open Source community by SCO.

Your sentiments directly parallel my own views on this matter and I thank you for your research in refuting the lies coming from this company and your contributions to the Open Source community.

Well Done Eric,

Kai the Canuck

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Re:Well Put Eric

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:21 AM
Very well written letter. my sentiments exactly coming from another canuck. =:-) I would hope other people are doing the same. Mr. Raymond, you're the man!!!

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Will judges understand this?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:15 AM
Is the American legal system sensitive for such words about justice? Or do they only understand legal terms like mr. McBride uses?

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Re:Will judges understand this?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 04:14 AM
"Take off every helmet"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...

"Move Zig"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...

"for Great Justice!!!"

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Re:Will judges understand this?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 08:44 PM
well, justice==law.

hence, the unlawful claims mcbride makes shouldn't win.

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Re:Will judges understand this?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 25, 2003 01:39 AM
Law may say it's fair to lapidate a woman 'cause she's got pregnant out from marriage. Do u think that's justice? Law may say it's fair letting free a known drugs dealer 'cause the proof was taken before the search warrant arrived. Do u think that's justice? Do I need to go on?

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Re:Will judges understand this?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 01, 2003 12:35 PM
stone a women? lol not in America amigo. I think this topic was only refering to american law. ^_^;;; Though I guess your right the Law isn't perfect. This is just my opinion; but does it really matter? SCO? Cause like if the judges find IBM guilty the worst that will happen is a kernel revision of those lines of code.

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GREAT!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:15 AM
Finally...

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Good job!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:16 AM
I agree... SCO is looking to litigation as income instead of a remedy. Something someone taught me once is that something is only a problem if you take it up with a person... if you just accuse them and bypass them altogether, it's a complaint.

Well, SCO, if you have a problem, talk with the Linux Kernel developers about it. Hell, if your programmers are as incompetent as your PR crew, the kernel will be better off without your code (if it exists, which I doubt). You're just being whiny, so step off and go back to what you do best, selling overpriced unix software.

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Re:Good job!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:14 AM
don't knock their programmers. they're not the ones doing this, and some of them are regular linux users and contributors.

please be careful to make that distinction. this is a problem with the management at SCO, not their front line coders.

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Re:Good job!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 08:48 PM
and 'their'(sco/calderas) code is in kernel iirc, submitted by them under gpl back when they didn't have an ass for management, but this isn't the code they're complaining of(maybe, they're so backwards retarded on this that the management might be complaining on this).

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Dark Helmet

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:16 AM
Eric, you are my son. So is Linus and Bruce, and Carly.

That's it. Show your anger, make your conversion over to the dark side complete. Use the Froth, Eric.

Darl McBride

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Re:Dark Helmet

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:40 AM
Eric is expressing the anger that the open source community is feeling. And it was about time!! We are all tired of hearing SCO's ridiculous claims day in and day out.

EXELLENT JOB ERIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re:Dark Helmet

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:51 AM
The cautionary point being made here is that, while Eric is certainly reflecting the sentiments of millions of penguinistas with his statement, he is allowing himself to be incited to make what could be construed as inflamatory remarks, and possibly being irked into revealing legal strategy. It might be part of SCO's legal strategy to get OSS leaders to publicly state 'they are out to destroy SCO' so he can point out what hooligans OSS supporters are. Defending as a white knight certainly has gained Eric sympathy and credibility. If it slips to ad hominum and attack mode, OSS may lose sympathetic ears, perhaps a set belonging to a judge. I don't expect Eric to come off like St. Francis or the Buddha, but keeping the focus on the technical and legal problems SCO creates and OSS efforts at resolutions without added emotionality will best serve the long term.

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Re:Dark Helmet

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 10:00 PM
The activities of SCO surely have had the consequences to bring closer the community and to even make it greater. Moreover, that gives notoriety to linux in a powerful way. Like one says, speaks about me of well or in evil but speaks. However, the statements of SCO ignite more and more the community and industry. It is necessary that the pressure leave, if not one it's likely even more to act irrationally. I believe that Eric as a figurehead of the open source movement can have the echo of the average geek with his forces and his weaknesses. Moreover, like he says it itself, that shows that he is not at the service of anyone.

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effectiveness

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:17 AM
I wonder how effective this leader could be. I normally find that threats/bullying do _not_ condone cooperation. Hell, look at the response SCO got from us.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)

But perhaps threatening/bullying SCO back (jail time threats, etc.) is all that will work. Much like the bullies of old (and probably now, too), the only thing that ever really got them to leave you alone was to knock their ass out - reasoning and attempts and friendship don't work.

The Open Source community didn't pick this fight, but I certainly hope we are the ones who finish it.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)

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Re:effectiveness

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 05:25 AM
We tried logic, we tried to be helpful, we tried to be patient, we tried everything...

If it's war you want Mr. McBride, it's war you'll get.

You've clearly never seen on a pissed off penguin...

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Classic!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:27 AM
This is great, I needed a chuckle for today. I love the "isolated wasteland for your citadel of dread" comment. I've been to Utah, so I understand what he's talking about....

Too bad someone can't just buy SCO, fire McBride, open-source the entire SCO codebase and end this whole stupid thing!

Oh well, maybe next week...

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Re:Classic!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:32 AM
Shame on you! Didn't you learn to never tell the end of a good soap-opera.

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Re:Classic!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:43 AM

> Too bad someone can't just buy SCO, fire McBride,
> open-source the entire SCO codebase and end this
> whole stupid thing!

Nobody wants SCO or their codebase. If SCO had any value at all, they wouldn't have to resort to their idiotic tactics.

---Bruce

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Re:Classic!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 11:15 PM
Besides... wasn't one of SCO's aims getting the stock price sky high and then getting bought out?

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This is not a very clever move

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:30 AM
This is not a very clever move . Too emotional and threating too.It makes the situation more worse
Better is do be political and kind.

Maybe SCO is sueing Raymond for threatening.


 

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Re:This is not a very clever move

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:38 AM
You know what, though? We've gotten past the point of trying to deal with them reasonably. They clearly don't want to be reasonable - I mean, for crying out loud, they're bitching and moaning about a conspiracy that is being operated by the 900 Pound Blue Gorilla themselves that doesn't even exist! When they've gotten to the point of comparing it to things I only hear about on public transportation, it's time to keep laughing at them, sure, but they're taking their own psychosis seriously - and that is a danger.

Which reminds me, I wonder if we can have them committed now.

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Re:This is not a very clever move

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:44 AM
I think you understand English not enough
to go being in judgement of his words.
Relax, it is good, many people say!

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Re:This is not a very clever move

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:45 AM
I don't blame him from being emotional, given that McBride and his lackeys have been making more and more preposterious claims as time goes on. I've been spitting mad just reading them.

Given that he is not speaking for IBM, only for himself, I don't see that it's a problem. It won't affect the trial, if it ever gets that far.

If SCO wants to sue him, then I say they should go ahead and try...I doubt they truly want *their* slanderous remarks put on trial, since what they've said over the last couple of months is considerably worse.

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Re:This is not a very clever move

Posted by: Charles Tryon on August 23, 2003 04:19 AM
As long as he refrains from threatening bodily harm to their persons, I think he's safe. He is making it clear that the Open Source community and Linux users (individual and commercial) aren't going to just roll over and let McB and company extract their extortion money, and that there are definite, and very uncomfortable consequences for the kind of abuses that SCO has been trying to make of the legal system, especially if their "evidence" all turns out to be as transparent as what we've seen so far, or if it is found that they have "planted" the infringing code themselves. I highly doubt that any SCO execs will ever see the inside of a prison cell, but it is a theoretical possibility.

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Re:This is not a very clever move

Posted by: Realmkeeper on August 23, 2003 08:41 AM
If that's the case then SCO will have to sue me too, as I had also sent emails.

I don't like being threatened or extorted for being both a private and commercial Linux user by a two-bit, money grabbing, forked tongue CEO. Who, I might add, till this point has only shown mirrors, smoke and rhetoric; and claimed them to be real evidence.

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Re:This is not a very clever move

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 10:52 PM
I hear that ESR has a very competant lawyer to represent him at no charge...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)

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Re:This is not a very clever move

Posted by: fmouse on August 24, 2003 01:52 AM
I've met and visited with Eric on a couple of occasions. In addition to being a very smart programmer, a gifted and incisive writer and a firm ally of the open source software movement, Eric is a militant Libertarian. "Don't tread on me" is written all over his personality. I don't agree with many of his views, but he certainly expresses extremely well what a lot of us are feeling about SCO. if there is a time and a place for righteous anger, this is certainly it!

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It isn't about being clever

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 24, 2003 12:21 PM
In this case, ESR is responding to an accusation by McBride that ESR "is on the payroll of IBM" and thus nothing but a puppet in IBM's 'conspiracy' against SCO (Smoking Crack Organization). Personally, I would take McBride to court right away for his slander. I'm not surprised at all that he responded in a more personal way than usual.

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YES !!!!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:38 AM
It is sad that such of letter have to be written.
OS comunity is build by civilised persons who prefer to create rather to treathen with destruction.

However, there are individuals (aka McBride & his gang) who will never be able to understand what the word civilisation mean. For these kind of creatures,
if you "turn the other cheek" they will slam again and again, they will grab your money after you fall down, then will start loughing about "how stuppid are you" and "how smart are they".

For these kind of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....... we have to rise the guns and talk the only language they can understand.

Well done Raymond !!! I fully subscribe to your letter.

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More Importantly, Who is backing SCO?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:40 AM
Surely, there must be some legal way to find out who is purchasing SCO stock at these inflated prices and effectively keeping SCO in the running?

Real answers - not speculation, please!

We can then completely turn this irrelevent paranoia about IBM on its head. Such details could be used as material evidence of criminal misdeeds.

Thanks

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Re:More Importantly, Who is backing SCO?

Posted by: Ender_01 on August 23, 2003 03:16 AM
My thought on this is M$. Think about the fact that they have just recently set up a new 'linux' lab, with how many boxes? a couple hunderd? And of course with M$ being so rightous(sp?) in the field of IP why wouldn't they 'buy' the license from SCO? If they didn't then well, that wouldn't be anything new either cause M$ still hasn't done anything about security either.

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Re:More Importantly, Who is backing SCO?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 07:13 AM
Who do you think is the "Fortune 500" company that bought Linux licenses? $50 says it turns out to be M$. Any takers?

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Re:More Importantly, Who is backing SCO?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:48 AM
Surely, there must be some legal way to find out who is purchasing SCO stock at these inflated prices and effectively keeping SCO in the running?


Doesn't matter, selling stock doesn't add to the SCO bottom line. Some execs are making a bit of cash, but nothing huge (I read the SEC filings myself)

Licensing does, however, generate money for SCO, that might be interesting to figure out. Anyone checked that money for a<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. Redmond<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. trail?

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Re:More Importantly, Who is backing SCO?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 04:27 AM
The Canopy group might have earned some 30 million USD just in the last month thought - check out this post on the Yahoo SCOX finnance forum:

http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&acti<nobr>o<wbr></nobr> n=m&board=1600684464&tid=cald&sid=1600684464&mid=<nobr>3<wbr></nobr> 0218
(remove any spaces from the URL)

Once the Canopy group has dumped all their stock, which at this rate should be around Christmas, expect a lot less noise about this lawsuit. (The SCO executive team has close ties to the Canopy group, so why should they bother staying around once the Canopy group shares are sold?)

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Re:More Importantly, Who is backing SCO?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 06:37 AM
Partial answer...


<A HREF="http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/invsub/ownership/ownership.asp?Symbol=SCOX" TITLE="msn.com"> MSNBC stock pages</a msn.com> show that there are significant additions of institutional investors. In fact, it shows that 8 of the top 15 institutional investors are new positions accounting for about 1.5 million shares of 13 million outstanding. I wish I had the time to check out the institutions taking those new positions.


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Darl Helmet....

Posted by: Anthony Awtrey on August 23, 2003 02:42 AM

It's not about Linux really

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:46 AM
It's about share price. McBride and the rest don't give a rats ass about Open Source, or GPL, or Linux. None of it matters. They care about pumping stock price and reaping profit. And they are doing so as we speak, and will continue to do so until a court decides the issue, or a regulatory body deems it prudent to halt trading of SCOX. What they are doing is wrong, in an Enron kinda way.

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Re:It's not about Linux really

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:55 AM
Oh yes it is! See, certain people have not made any money off Linux (and also Unix for that matter). So we are into some weird plan where they can make a few billion US dollars. But not only that, can attempt to remove Free Software from the face of the earth.

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_Bingo!_

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 10:38 AM
McBride and company have already won. They have increased SCO value more than tenfold in one year. If they end up with a long term or bigger or better solution, all the better. However, even if they walk out now (without jail terms) they have beaten the system.

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Re:_Bingo!_

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 25, 2003 10:55 PM
What happens to all those who own stock when SCO looses it's law suite?

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Date

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:53 AM
By the way it is Friday 22nd August 2003.

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A thousand thanks, Mr. Raymond.

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 02:56 AM
Thank you for saying so lucidly and articulately what so many of us have been thinking and wishing we could say. Reading your letter verges on the cathartic for me... Your honesty and integrity have been and continue to be a beacon for those of us who still value freedom, and the fact that a man possessing those qualities can still reach a position of visibility and widespread respect is cause for hope in this age of the broken American legal system, where "what is right" is being drowned by "what is legal."

Thank you.

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Burn to ashes

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:02 AM
No cure can be found for MAD SCO DISEASE.
The body have to be burn to ashes to prevent spreading of the infection.

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Gerhardt's Speech

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:03 AM

rather than simply using the mere accusations as a pretext to pump its stock price and collect payoffs from Microsoft for making trouble


These are exactly the sort of remarks we've been criticising SCO for making -- unfounded allegations. When someone has hard evidence that Microsoft is paying SCO to make these claims against IBM and the GPL, people speaking for the open source community can say this...otherwise, don't fall into the pit with SCO.

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Re:Gerhardt's Speech

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:17 AM
Um... But we do have evidence. Microsoft licensed "technology" (the details of which are all undisclosed) from SCO. Maybe Microsoft actually intends to use the technology and it's just a fluke that they licensed it when they did, but given all the personalities involved, I don't think that's a plausible conclusion. It's not exactly unfounded that Microsoft has severe business issues with the GPL, Open Source software, and all these volunteers building software for "free".

Look--most of this is all a media free-for-all anyhow. The different "players" in this "game" all have wildly different motivations and methodologies. SCO is losing a publicity fight right now--they're twisting whichever way they can to gain some limelight. I think that's the only conclusion one can come to after looking at all the press releases and what they're reacting to. I expect FOX to come out with a trashy reality TV series based on all of this any day now.

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Reality TV?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:50 AM
I expect FOX to come out with a trashy reality TV series based on all of this any day now.


Perhaps Open Source for the Straight CEO?

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Re:Gerhardt's Speech

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 12:47 PM
The payoff from microsoft part of this accusation is unfounded, but the stock price has risen by over $4-5 a share since this whole mess started. That is a demonstrated fact, that can be verified by checking cnn.com's stock ticker. And it is also a fact that recently a number of SCO executives have sold over a million dollars total in stock. The fact that they are selling so much stock while it is at such an artificial high is certainly suspicious to me.

Anyway, this is just my 2 cents regarding this whole issue.

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Re:Gerhardt's Speech

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 24, 2003 12:47 AM
"These are exactly the sort of remarks we've been criticising SCO for making -- unfounded allegations. When someone has hard evidence that Microsoft is paying SCO to make these claims against IBM and the GPL, people speaking for the open source community can say this...otherwise, don't fall into the pit with SCO."

Doesn't Microsoft own 10% of the company, and they bought in soon after SCO started making allegations?

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Re:Gerhardt's Speech

Posted by: TheHermit on August 24, 2003 05:27 AM
1) No significant developments or aquisitions by SCO have increased the value of the company.

2) The stock price of SCO has soared, apparently due to their assault on the Open Source community and IBM (1 shows there is no other possible reason for it to have soared, SCO owns nothing of significant value).

3) It is apparent that the management of any public company has a duty to increase the stock price in any ethical and lawful fashion which they can. Whether or not SCO's actions are ethical and lawful will eventually be determined by the courts and public opinion.

4) The management of SCO are undoubtedly responsble for having attacked the Open Source community and IBM.

5) SCO could have resolved the issues they have in discussion with the Open Source Community and IBM in advance of the settlement of damages. The fact that they chosen to defer resolution indicates that this is not what their case is about.

6) The public arguments occuring indicate that the merits of their claims are at the least debatable.

7) Resolving the issue and waiting on the courts to establish damages, if any, would increase the potential damages if awarded, but would tend to reduce the amount of publicity received by SCO.

8) Clause 7 indicates that the management of SCO intend to increase the value of the stock price without increasing or defending the (presumed) assets of the company, and their "war by press release" as opposed to attempted resolution of the problems that they assert exist, strongly indicates that this is indeed their strategy.

9) It is fair to describe such a strategy as "pump[ing] the stock price."

10) Since establishing this case, Microsoft has allegedly paid SCO for various licences, the value of which, to Microsoft is in doubt. Certainly AT&T, Novell, Caldera and SCO have all failed at making the rather awful code in Unix V a commercially valuable proposition. So why should this code have value to Microsoft?

11) This being the case, would it not be fair to speculate that the reason for Microsoft's payment to SCO is due to the fact that Microsoft is quite enjoying the spectacle SCO is creating, and the huge uncertainties that this has generated in the marketplace tending to encourage organizations to favor Microsoft as an alternative to *nix (no matter how lame brained this may be).

12) As such, is it not fair to regard the "licence fees" from Microsoft to SCO as a "payoff" "for making trouble"?

13) Does the above, particularly 9 and 12, not suggest that Gerhardt's statements were "well founded"?

14) Attacking a respected member of the Open Source community for making a well-founded statement is something which pehaps SCO might engage in. But should we?

TheHermit

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I fully understand Erics feelings, but still...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:06 AM
...IMHO it's absolutely NOT a good thing to respond to SCO in such a way.

It will 99%percent not be received positive on SCO, and every threat adds to their reasoning AFTERWARDS.

It doesn't matter, who started the fight, if your the first to throw the fists (even if provoked).

Although at times I get mad as hell what people (like SCO) can say and do, it always reflects back to me when I show that emotion (even if "justified")!

I truly belief, we (as a community and also a human race altogether) will ultimately only have a chance, when we learn that the peaceful way is THE ONLY WAY or otherwise there IS NO WAY!

To say it in the words of some true heros:

First they ignore you.
Then they laugh at you.
Then they fight you.
Then you win!
(Ghandi)

The road to peace is peace
(Martin Luther King)

You dont have to fight back to win, just dont give them any room to change your mind, thats it.

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Re:I fully understand Erics feelings, but still...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:55 AM
The peaceful way?

"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look
upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."

--Mahatma Gandhi (Gandhi, An Autobiography)

It seems that Gandhi choose the peaceful way because he had no alternative. The founders of our country did not take the peaceful way as they had a choice. They wanted freedom from tyranny. If you want that then you had better be prepared to fight for it-- otherwise your peaceful world will only be one of slavery. It is time to draw this thing out and to get it on.

If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."
- Winston Churchill

Paul Hahn,
Software Engineer

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Excelent qoutes

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 09:14 PM
Thank you. I wish more people understood than evil just doesn't get tired and go home when people stop fighting. It grows and has children.

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Re:I fully understand Erics feelings, but still...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 04:19 AM
I disagree. McBride, and thus SCO, has become completely paranoid and irrational. He's making mistakes because he's paranoid. ESR's letter, besides being cathartic for us, will make McBride MORE paranoid and irrational, and thus cause him to make more mistakes.

Sun Tzu advised that if your enemy is easily angered, then anger him more, so he his anger will cloud his judgement.

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Re:I fully understand Erics feelings, but still...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 05:13 AM
"Sun Tzu advised that if your enemy is easily angered, then anger him more, so he his anger will cloud his judgement."

An why would that be a good choice?
Does it give you a good feeling seeing someone furious (maybe thats why jerry springer's so popular...)
Whats the point?

Just leave him alone with all his rantings and shouts, he's still a human being, so just dont bother...

if he sends you a letter, dump it in the shredder...
i know it gets annoying from time to time, but then this is the same with spam...

If SCO really forces you to court, well, let them try: if you KNOW you got nothing to fear, nothings going to come out of it (for SCO), UNLESS YOU HAVE NO FAITH IN THE AMERICAN WAY AND BELIEVE THE WHOLE (AMERICAN) SYSTEM IS CORRUPT...

I really like the way Linus handles the sitaution:
Talking about SCO as "smoking crack", giving them no credibility while at the same time not making any personal threats (although threatened by them).

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Re:I fully understand Erics feelings, but still...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 09:11 AM
Claiming that someone is "smoking crack" may not be a personal threat but I think it is a personal insult.

Well deserved, in this case.

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Re:I fully understand Erics feelings, but still...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 01:11 PM
he's still a human being,

If Darl McBride represents the minimum qualifications to be a human being then it's nothing worth aspiring too. More to the point, I think its an insult to real human beings to number McBride among them.

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Re:I fully understand Erics feelings, but still...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 04:59 AM
If you can't Innovate, Litigate.

(D. McBride)

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Re:I fully understand Erics feelings, but still...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 05:11 AM
You are pathetic.... Go stand with your surrender monkey friends in France and Germany. Lest we forget, fighting was the only way to stop Hitler from murdering people, the only way to stop Ned the Bad (Edward I) from raping Scotland, and the only way to end the tyranny of King George in the US in 1775.

Peace is highly overrated luxury when you are being systematically exterminated. I say kudos to Eric and Linus for defending our rights. I'd rather go down fighting with Linus and the Samba team than allow myself and my esteemed colleagues to suffer the insults and extermination from McBride and his parrot, Sotag. "non-commercial" my arse.

Better to be prepared for a fight and not need to use it than be unprepared when the time comes to protect your own. Mr. Raymond has put Mr. McBride on notice. The penguin is on the move.

I stand with freedom and justice and I'll use every means at my disposal to defend my rights and the rights of other Open Source advocates.

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Re:I fully understand Erics feelings, but still...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 05:31 AM
"Go stand with your surrender monkey friends in France and Germany..."

no, who's being pathetic...?
you really believe US stopped Hitler only because he killed people?

Well, why then has US sponsored about any dictator anywhere in the world (inkl.Taliban+Saddam) as long as their own arses are at save distance???

Why did they kill some "good ones" in their own country, like Kennedy, MartinLutherKing?

Kicking someone's insignificant butt like DarlMcBride's makes you a true hero?
Maybe you trie that with someone who was good friend with the Enron-gang, who tried the pump'n'dump on a much greater scale, or recently lied about the real issues of your country going to war....

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Re:I fully understand Erics feelings, but still...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 07:05 AM
Go stand with your surrender monkey friends in France and Germany.



you mean the ones the bush junta is begging for help in iraq now? now who is pathetic?

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Re:I fully understand Erics feelings, but still...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 24, 2003 12:25 AM
Remember that SCO can do what is doing now because your Banana Republic is on the first line in "protecting software" thru copyright and software patents, and your non-elected caudillo, Mr. Bush The (auto-nominated) World's Emperor is one of the strongest supporter of this Sovietic (=monopolistic) practice.
In Europe, at least until september 1st<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;), software patents are (formally) illegal.
Please, first regain democracy and credibility, bring back "your boys" before they all die by suicide bombing and _then_ talk.

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Re:I fully understand Erics feelings, but still...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 26, 2003 01:00 AM
Look, it's the former Information Minister of Iraq. I thought they captured you a few weeks ago... Oh yes, you weren't important enough to keep so they threw you back...

Great beret, got the whole "Monica" thing going....

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Re:I fully understand Erics feelings, PROFIT!!!!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 05:52 AM
1. They ignore you.
2. They laugh at you.
3. They fight you.
4. You win.
5. ???
6. Profit!!!

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First to Throw Fists?

Posted by: Charles Tryon on August 23, 2003 09:12 AM
You call this the "first to throw the fists"? I'm sorry, but McB has been throwing insults, threats and lies around for months now! He's flat out called Open Source developers thieves, pirates and hoodlums. He's accused us of pilfering his property, as well as the property of countless other proprietay software vendors. He's mailed out extortion threats to 1,500 companies, and now he starting to send out invoices fer cryin' out loud!

McB knows nothing of "peace" or negotiation. He's dragged IBM into this, and he is threatening on dragging countless other small (read: too poor to fight back) companies and end users into court. He has no interest in "solving" the problem, short of a few $B to pad his personal bank account.

Besides, if McB wants excuses to sue people, he's already shown that he is more than competent at making them up out of the blue.

Now, I'm not for going out and forming a posse or lynch mob to hunt down SCI execs. I'm certainly against people breaking into the SCO Web site and defacing their home page. I'm even against mailbombing their servers or subscribing them to a thousand mailing lists, or egging their corporate headquarters. But writing a strongly worded, even emotional open letter, reminding them that throwing stones in glass houses has negative consequences is certainly in line.

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Re:I fully understand Erics feelings, but still...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 01:03 PM
Man, you totally don't understand business.

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Re:I fully understand Erics feelings, but still...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 04:50 PM
"Man, you totally don't understand business."

Believe it or not, I think I do (to some extent).
And I don't call what SCO's doing business at all, so I do deploy SusE Linux and let SCO talking bullsh*t all they want...

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Re:I fully understand Erics feelings, but still...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 09:16 PM
First they ignore you.
Then they laugh at you. ***
Then they fight you.
Then you win!

*** Eric is laughing.

It might not be obvious to a non-American, because of the cultural references and sarcasm he's using, but he's definitely laughing at them.

If they want to fight, they already have IBM and RedHat in the ring with them, and are trying to ignore them)

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The tone of the letter is just fine.

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 25, 2003 08:03 AM
I fully subscribe to Eric's letter, and see the tone of it fully appropriate. Let's face it. SCO's act is just a FUD show to cash-in at any rate. They are not interested at all to remove any UNIX code (if any) from Linux kernel in order to extort Linux users. So this letter serves the purpose of acknowledging IBM's alliance with Open Source comunity in this case, reiterating Gerhard's (useless?) offer to remove code from Linux, and stating that the unavoidable attack to SCO is a defensive action against SCO's unfair attack to Linux and GPL. The tone is irrelevant. The best tone in the world won't change SCO's mind. So now everything is set for war and, incredibly, we can only expect an even more exiting show than ever (so far, better than the best movie). As for IBM, they've been indeed very very smart, for they'd use any nut to smash SCO's, and I don't have any doubt IBM can produce enough evidence to charge and send SCO's bosses to jail. We should hope IBM don't ever settle it's case with SCO out of court, as it would be bad for Linux, and also for IBM in the long run. For I hope IBM has finally understood that more than a product or service, the most important feature of an operating system is that it is in essence a standard. IBM and all of us must fight SCO all the way to the end to free Linux out of the hook completely.

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Me doth think

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:15 AM
you protest too much. Come on now, Eric. Admit it. You, Linus, the whole "gang" are only doing this because you are being paid by IBM. Stop denying it for just one minute and admit it already!

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Re:Me doth think

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 08:21 AM
...because you are being paid by IBM.

Thats a new one.

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Re: bit bite?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 05:21 PM
Is this "bit bite", "the real bit" from over at zdnet? One of the #1 ms trolls there. Did you not post this same comment there today also. Shame man shame!!! Do any of you here know how many posts this "bit" has posted? Do a google search and you'll find your answer.

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Re:Me doth think

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 24, 2003 10:52 PM
And you, you protest too little. Come on now, SCO_paid_employee. Admit it. You, Bill, the whole "gang" are only doing this because you are being paid by Microsoft. Stop denying it for just one minute and admit it already!

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McBride's made his own bed...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:17 AM
...so let him sleep in it.

He told his Canopy Masters he could do the job.

You can be sure that, of everything facing him, the worst will come from them...twisting slowly in the breeze...

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Friday, 20 August 2003

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:24 AM
There was not such a date.

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Lawsuit

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:34 AM
So does this mean that we can expect the developers to file a class action lawsuit against SCO real soon? With a request for a preliminary injunction to make SCO stop making claims and trying to sell licenses?

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Re:Lawsuit

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:57 AM
Letters like this are a good thing. SCO should feel the outrage of the community. They have done a deplorable thing, so let them be deplored.

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hail IBM? hell no.

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:40 AM
One thing that most of us forget/choose to ignore is that IBM is a big capitalist corporation that used/uses slave labour. It is nonetheless good to have them as an ally, but watch out, seriously, siding with a big company like that could easily fire back.
A simple google search can give one a lot of info:

http://www.geocities.com/youth4sa/prisonlabor.htm<nobr>l<wbr></nobr>
http://www.cmht.com/casewatch/humanrights/holocau<nobr>s<wbr></nobr> t.html
http://www.cmht.com/casewatch/cases/cwibm2.htm
http://www.lula.org/pipermail/lula-biz/2003-July/<nobr>0<wbr></nobr> 00217.html

huh, make CC=/your/brain think

esaul
peace

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Re:hail IBM? hell no.

Posted by: Ender_01 on August 23, 2003 04:23 AM
I don't really know where to start with this....

Well the holocaust case got dismissed to begin with. You can't hold it against IBM if they sold stuff to Germeny before the war started and then that stuff was used in the war. Its like saying someone got killed by a drunk driver, and then blaming the car manufacturer for the accident because he sold the car to the driver who then when out and killed someone with it.

And as far as prision labor, people in prision are there for a reason. And its not to sit back and relax for the period of your sentance. If they are forced to do labor, so what? They took away their own legal rights when they committed a crime. The only thing I disagree with this is that it takes jobs away from other, non criminals, not because the prisoners are treated like slaves, because they aren't. They did the crime, now they have to pay.

And I'm not sure what your last article is there for. Dont know if you are trying to so IBM as prejudice against blacks simply because more happened to be in prision where prision labor was used???

Oh, and btw....if you haven't figured this out yet...don't believe everything you read on the internet! If we did SCO would be rich right now. =p

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Certainly proves he doesn't work for IBM!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:43 AM
Folks are getting far too uptight about the tone of this message. ESR is an important person in the community, but it's a broad community, with a lot of attitudes.

Among other things, it certainly proved beyond a doubt that ESR isn't getting stuff approved by IBM before he posts (which I think was a lot of the point of the tone)!

And while it was threatening, it certainly isn't inappropriately so, and made a good implicit point:

"You think we're working for IBM? Piss off our frothing horde of code berserkers any more, and you're going to WISH that you were only fighting polite, business-driven IBM. We don't have shareholders, we don't have quarterly earning targets, all we have is our code. This would be a war for the preservation of our community, and we'll keep fighting way past you don't have any money for your lawyers, or your salary, or any of the things you care about. Rest assure, we care about this a lot more than you do, and we're inarguably going to win - you'd be better off fighting a land war in Asia. Your bluff is called. If there is an issue with code, we'll fix it. If it goes past that, we're going to defeat you in the most unpleasant way we can devise."

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Very well said

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:46 AM
Excellent (except for the jab at Utah, which, despite Mr. McBride's stinking up thereof, is a beautiful place).

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Re:Very well said

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 10:00 PM
"I'd ask if you'd found the right sort of isolated wasteland for your citadel of dread yet, but that would be a silly question; you're in Utah, after all." This refers to the intellectual and physical isolation of Utah which has been referred to as the "Scam Capital". I live in Utah and do not take exception!

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Re:Very well said

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 26, 2003 01:21 AM
Yes UT is beautiful, but there are a lot of places that would be eminently suitable for a "citadel of dread". Dugway Proving Grounds or Tooele ("too-ellah") Army Depot (where they are still working on getting rid of the leacking chem/bio munitions), or Envirocare's toxic/nuclear waste dump in the West Desert for three examples.

Utah Resident.

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Well said!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:47 AM
As a long time open source and Linux user I can say that I support the position you presented whole heartedly.
And I absolutely love the way you presented it!

Thanks to you and all of the other Linux, Gnu and open source people!

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Prepare to suffer Darl

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 03:49 AM
Take this for cash McBride; it won't take any sponsership for the multitude of Linux terrorists like me to make your life unbearable. Thats what you don't get at all from the Linux, GNU and Opensource communities: it never counted on any sponsorship to get the job done. And neither it will. I think that Linux people are simply good willing people that are usually calm and love coding; attack their reason of living and you have unleashed the full wrath of god. I think that's why SCO's website and your fu**ing inbox arent down right now; were civilized people. But keep pushing it and we won't stay civilized for long. We'll turn into blood drenched animals that will rip you and your pathetic company in tiny pieces.